Inj Dbol

Although I've never ran dbol. I dont really mind the water from deca. As long as I dont get moonface I'm good.

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Would you say it's safe to run injectable dbol/winstrol together?

Like if it was possible to get a 25mg dbol/50mg winstrol injectable?

Good idea to run with low dose test and NPP?
Yes!, you should be able to run the injectable d-bol with an injectable winstrol, providing ones blood test looks good!, especially with a choline /nac /milk thistle support. D-bol will raise your red blood cell count as that defiantly would pertain to you coming off eq (boldenone increases rbc) last cycle, I can promise that your rbc will be elevated and you need to donate blood, you probably have an extra pint of blood putting an increased load on your heart and raising blood pressure, many older professionals will obtain an oral or (base) injectable compound to ease the stress of the first pass. Defiantly everyone should have blood work either before or after every cycle leaving no doubt about where one stands health wise!. D-bol oral was prescribed in the US for anemia (low rbc) in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, and is found in many countries as a veterinary steroid for horses to increase rbc. There is nothing better for fluid under the skin than winstrol injection, biggest problem is finding a micronized product for using in smaller needles, a shitty product will clump in a smaller size syringe!!
Winstrol - v made by upjohn was the best ever made.

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Damn now I have these orals just sitting here, I don't even want em anymore lol. I def want the injectable now, pharmacom is sold out currently. Also is it water based or oil based? Lastly, being an injectable compound does it change its anabolic:andro ratio? Someone tried to say inj dbol can be considered on tren level status. VERY hard for me to believe that, but again i've never ran it. Someone claimed it has around 600 anabolic rating (tren status) I don't see how converting this compound to an injectable would change the ratio that much. Regular dbol has an anabolic rating of 210, but again this is all on paper. Real world application may be a different story.

Anyone wanna share how their experience was? What kind of gains did you see, Wet? Dry? Puffy? Solid?
 
Damn now I have these orals just sitting here, I don't even want em anymore lol. I def want the injectable now, pharmacom is sold out currently. Also is it water based or oil based? Lastly, being an injectable compound does it change its anabolic:andro ratio? Someone tried to say inj dbol can be considered on tren level status. VERY hard for me to believe that, but again i've never ran it. Someone claimed it has around 600 anabolic rating (tren status) I don't see how converting this compound to an injectable would change the ratio that much. Regular dbol has an anabolic rating of 210, but again this is all on paper. Real world application may be a different story.

Anyone wanna share how their experience was? What kind of gains did you see, Wet? Dry? Puffy? Solid?
Bro!, d-bol is a bulking compound! Tren is a cutting/recomp compound, they are completely opposite in effects. Tren on paper is 500/500 anabolic /androgenic ratio and in the real world I've never seen anyone bulk on tren (gain more than 12 lbs) in my career and I'm a former IFBB pro for 12 years having been a trainer partner of Ronnie Coleman and Jay cutler!. I'm 292 lbs at 10% and trust me I attest most of my size came from d-bol, deca, and test suspension , its far superior for mass and most users can add 20 plus lbs of solid muscle after it clears. DIET will determine your CONDITION period!.A disciplined diet will be the ultimate factor of a successful cycle not the compound!.keep your potassium/sodium ratio at 3/1 (6000mg/2000mg) and you will never, ever have a puffy look!, I used d-bol and anadrol up until 10 days before a show, it's about the diet, sodium /potassium ratio, and cardio! The d-bol pharmacom product is water based and no it does not change the anabolic /androgen ratio being an injection. I'm a cardiologist now and many elite professional bb are under my care and also are patients in my HRT clinics, NO elite bb use tren for mass, thats a bro science Myth with young bb!.D-bol is not available by prescription in the USA but myself having a DEA license I can purchase it from legally from Sigma pharmaceutical as raw powder and compound it for my patients, it is requested (and primo but I can't purchase it) by most all my current and former professional bb patients for off-season cycles in my clinics!! There is an old saying in the bb world "if you can't grow on d-bol and deca you won't grow on anything"!!!!. It's old school, like penicillin it always works!!!!!

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Bro!, d-bol is a bulking compound! Tren is a cutting/recomp compound, they are completely opposite in effects. Tren on paper is 500/500 anabolic /androgenic ratio and in the real world I've never seen anyone bulk on tren (gain more than 12 lbs) in my career and I'm a former IFBB pro for 12 years having been a trainer partner of Ronnie Coleman and Jay cutler!. I'm 292 lbs at 10% and trust me I attest most of my size came from d-bol, deca, and test suspension , its far superior for mass and most users can add 20 plus lbs of solid muscle after it clears. DIET will determine your CONDITION period!.A disciplined diet will be the ultimate factor of a successful cycle not the compound!.keep your potassium/sodium ratio at 3/1 (6000mg/2000mg) and you will never, ever have a puffy look!, I used d-bol and anadrol up until 10 days before a show, it's about the diet, sodium /potassium ratio, and cardio! The d-bol pharmacom product is water based and no it does not change the anabolic /androgen ratio being an injection. I'm a cardiologist now and many elite professional bb are under my care and also are patients in my HRT clinics, NO elite bb use tren for mass, thats a bro science Myth with young bb!.D-bol is not available by prescription in the USA but myself having a DEA license I can purchase it from legally from Sigma pharmaceutical as raw powder and compound it for my patients, it is requested (and primo but I can't purchase it) by most all my current and former professional bb patients for off-season cycles in my clinics!! There is an old saying in the bb world "if you can't grow on d-bol and deca you won't grow on anything"!!!!. It's old school, like penicillin it always works!!!!!

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I have never in my life had a problem putting on weight. Seriously I don't understand how anyone could have that problem. It's losing fat that takes the hard work and commitment. If you want to gain weight, just eat more.
 
I have never in my life had a problem putting on weight. Seriously I don't understand how anyone could have that problem. It's losing fat that takes the hard work and commitment. If you want to gain weight, just eat more.
That's not the problem, he's 275 and has made excellent progress alone, he wants to compete, needing a good coach for nutrition and pre-contest compound knowledge!, in my opinion at, 6'4 will still need 50lbs or more to eventually compete at 280 ripped to stand next to a 5'8 240 lbs ripped athlete to be competitive and it still might not be enough at 6'4 that is a difficult endeavor, 5'8, to 5:10 is perfect for a heavy weight bb!!!! He pm me and I suggested nick triligi former IFBB pro and now a coach!.

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That's not the problem, he's 275 and has made excellent progress alone, he wants to compete, needing a good coach for nutrition and pre-contest compound knowledge!, in my opinion at, 6'4 will still need 50lbs or more to eventually compete at 280 ripped to stand next to a 5'8 240 lbs ripped athlete to be competitive and it still might not be enough at 6'4 that is a difficult endeavor, 5'8, to 5:10 is perfect for a heavy weight bb!!!! He pm me and I suggested nick triligi former IFBB pro and now a coach!.

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This is spot on! At 6ft4 I look massive at my size...still lean as hell on only 250mg test and 5iu GH....HOWEVER when standing next to those shorter muscle bellies they will kick my ass every time unless I put on another SOLID 15-20lbs...just because of the illusion. Its fucked up but that's how it is. If I go down in weight I will look lean and shredded but kinda stringy. I need to be full and vascular to be a force! So 280s/290s shredded would be super love!

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Blue!, I feel you why you didn't tell your doctor about the gear!, most physicians don't know jack about gear, he probably just would have suggested that you stop forever with liver values that high! That's why the pros come see me, being a former pro bodybuilder, they can be honest with me because I've been there and won't pass judgment on them!, or It might also be that I prescribe pharmaceutical HGH and IGF-1 and sell it to them for cost!! Ya think? Hmm???

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That's not the problem, he's 275 and has made excellent progress alone, he wants to compete, needing a good coach for nutrition and pre-contest compound knowledge!, in my opinion at, 6'4 will still need 50lbs or more to eventually compete at 280 ripped to stand next to a 5'8 240 lbs ripped athlete to be competitive and it still might not be enough at 6'4 that is a difficult endeavor, 5'8, to 5:10 is perfect for a heavy weight bb!!!! He pm me and I suggested nick triligi former IFBB pro and now a coach!.

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I wasn't referring to him. I was just speaking in general terms.
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16531893/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18209883/?i=5&from=/16531893/
Yes, nandrolone will have a greater effect on t3 over other Steroids because of the high binding affinity of 19- nor compounds, it's even more pronounced in deca 's 19 - nor brother trenbolone. For athletes Trilodothyronine (t3) and nandrolone issues are common, all Steroids have a slight impact on t3 but the higher the binding affinity of 19-nor compounds are the highest binding of all Steroids. The study above is on rats but it is equivalent in humans and I can't find the study at the moment. T3 can be normalized with iodine. Iodine controls t3 in the body. The 3 next to the T in T3 is the number of iodine molecules attached to Trilodothyronine (3 in t3 and 4 in t4) , iodide is the most powerful trace element in the body, controlling the metabolism, heart rate, and many other factors. Low iodine is cause by heavy metals in the body, fluoride, chlorine, bromine, and bromide in the tap water, also high estrogen levels from Steroids dramatically effect T3. T3 is bound mostly to muscle and low t3 symptoms are fat gain, lack of energy, loss of mental focus and rapid heart rate. Iodine will normalize t3 and should be taken with selenium and the best way is to take as an entire trace element supplement because they work together, very low fat diets cause low t3 issues because t3 effects insulin and fat buffers insulin that's why low fat diet can effect t3, a dead sea mineral supplement or a Himalayan sea salt supplement is the best way to get bioavailable iodine. There is 500 mcg of iodine in every gram of Himalayan sea salt, again monitoring blood work is a must when using steroids, blowing off blood work will catch up with everyone eventually!!!

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16531893/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18209883/?i=5&from=/16531893/
Yes, nandrolone will have an effect on t3 because of the high binding affinity of 19- nor compounds, it's even more pronounced in deca 's 19 - nor brother trenbolone. Trilodothyronine (t3) and nandrolone issues are common. all Steroids have a slight impact on t3 but the higher the binding affinity of 19-nor compounds are the highest binding of all Steroids. The study above is on rats but it is equivalent in humans and I can't find the study at the moment. T3 can be normalized with iodine. Iodine controls t3 in the body. The 3 next to the T in T3 is the number of iodine molecules attached to Trilodothyronine (3 in t3 and 4 in t4) , iodide is the most powerful trace element in the body, controlling the metabolism, heart rate, and many other factors. Low iodine is cause by heavy metals in the body, fluoride, chlorine, bromine, and bromide in the tap water, also high estrogen levels from Steroids dramatically effect T3. T3 is bound mostly to muscle and low t3 symptoms are fat gain, lack of energy, loss of mental focus and rapid heart rate. Iodine will normalize t3 and should be taken with selenium and the best way is to take as an entire trace element supplement because they work together, very low fat diets cause low t3 issues because t3 effects insulin and fat buffers insulin that's why low fat diet can effect t3, a dead sea mineral supplement or a Himalayan sea salt supplement is the best way to get bioavailable iodine. There is 500 mcg of iodine in every gram of Himalayan sea salt, again monitoring blood work is a must when using steroids, blowing off blood work will catch up with everyone eventually!!!

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So you would recommend iodine/selenium over t3 or t4 when using nandrolone to mitigate fat gain?

What is the ratio of iodine to selenium you want ideally?
 
So you would recommend iodine/selenium over t3 or t4 when using nandrolone to mitigate fat gain?

What is the ratio of iodine to selenium you want ideally?
No that's not what I'm saying!, not even close!, when a athlete has a thyroid that isn't functioning properly iodine will restore it to normal levels!. Iodine has been depleted from the soil from over farming and it is difficult to get the required amount, bb already having low iodine levels add to the problem with estrogen conversion, high sugar and carbohydrates intake that causes insulin levels to spike. No steroid deposits fat, that is a diet (nutrition) issue only. Steroids are hormones that stimulate the androgen receptor and fat storage is from excess calories, sugar and carbohydrates being stored, also all extra protein the body does not use gets converted to sugar in the liver than stored as fat. You only need 1 gram of protein per pound of LEAN body mass not total weight to stay in a positive nitrogen balance and build muscle and that's an over estimated number, ketosis science proves that. Eating 400 to 500 grams of protein is bro science and a lie pushed on the bb industry, it's a protein marketing scam. Nandrolone has no effect on fat, your diet has to be on point, I use drol and dbol up till the show without storing fat. Nutrition that's more important than the gear, a bb who is disciplined with nutrition is a disciplined bb. You have to be in a calorie surplus to grow and all extra calories are burned off by cardio, if the calories are not burned by cardio they will be stored as fat. You can take 2000 mg of nandrolone and snort drol and it won't store a single gram of fat, that's a nutrition issue, Steroids and the androgen receptor have nothing to do with fat, trenbolone will increase the body's ability to burn fat but it does not burn fat directly, nor does it store store fat, insulin is the nutrient parishioner in the body that stores fat. High sugar and high refined carbohydrates and extreme high protein intake will cause a insulin spike in the body and store excess fat!.. Brother nutrition is a science, if you want to become a more advanced bb nutrition knowledge is by far more important than gear, and then has to be implemented day after day(discipline) , all elite athletes have a high nutrition IQ, nutrition 80% and 20% gear.

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No that's not what I'm saying!, not even close!, when a athlete has a thyroid that isn't functioning properly iodine will restore it to normal levels!. Iodine has been depleted from the soil from over farming and it is difficult to get the required amount, bb already having low iodine levels add to the problem with estrogen conversion, high sugar and carbohydrates intake that causes insulin levels to spike. No steroid deposits fat, that is a diet (nutrition) issue only. Steroids are hormones that stimulate the androgen receptor and fat storage is from excess calories, sugar and carbohydrates being stored, also all extra protein the body does not use gets converted to sugar in the liver than stored as fat. You only need 1 gram of protein per pound of LEAN body mass not total weight to stay in a positive nitrogen balance and build muscle and that's an over estimated number, ketosis science proves that. Eating 400 to 500 grams of protein is bro science and a lie pushed on the bb industry, it's a protein marketing scam. Nandrolone has no effect on fat, your diet has to be on point, I use drol and dbol up till the show without storing fat. Nutrition that's more important than the gear, a bb who is disciplined with nutrition is a disciplined bb. You have to be in a calorie surplus to grow and all extra calories are burned off by cardio, if the calories are not burned by cardio they will be stored as fat. You can take 2000 mg of nandrolone and snort drol and it won't store a single gram of fat, that's a nutrition issue, Steroids and the androgen receptor have nothing to do with fat, trenbolone will increase the body's ability to burn fat but it does not burn fat directly, nor does it store store fat, insulin is the nutrient parishioner in the body that stores fat. High sugar and high refined carbohydrates and extreme high protein intake will cause a insulin spike in the body and store excess fat!.. Brother nutrition is a science, if you want to become a more advanced bb nutrition knowledge is by far more important than gear, and then has to be implemented day after day(discipline) , all elite athletes have a high nutrition IQ, nutrition 80% and 20% gear.

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Certain hormones DO make fat retention, accumulation and release difficult or easy.

Excessive estrogen and i hold more fat and its harder to burn what i have. People can point to science as much as they want, but ive done lots of cardio and ate well with estro out of wack and its extremely difficult to burn fat and more of what i eat seems to stick.

I can have the same diet on masteron/primo/var and look much diff than if i ate the exact same on nandrolone/adrol.

With all due respect, "science" that is available does not have any studies to account for differences in individual physiology, interactions with other compounds, etc.... And to my knowledge, the performance effects of very few compounds has been studied.
 
There is no such thing as individual physiology!, Every human has the same physiology,(that is why BLOOD WORK DOES NOT LIE) it always tells the TRUTH. If everyone had different physiology medical science would not exist! I'm speaking from both SCIENCE AND BB every doctor, professor or scientists will tell you the exact same thing I'm telling you, every experienced bb or bb coach will tell you the exact same thing I'm telling you about science and how it effects metabolism. Personally I believe that you are confusing fluid and fat!, the effects of primo, var, masteron, winstrol have on the body are literally no fluid retention. Drol, test, deca and dbol cause fluid retention, this will change your entire look, which body fat test are you using?? a hydrostatic tank or a electrical system (DEXA), or a pinch test or did you just guess. That photo you provided in the last hupharma cycle thread is at least 15% and probably higher there was no separation in the delts, lower back, or arms, you have to get your body fat tested (if you have on the last cycle please post it now!,) jumping on that cycle after what 12 weeks of dline gear and blending them all together and trying to make any kind of reliable evaluation really put your knowledge into proper perspective, and then wanting to get back on a month clean with no desire to get blood work speaks loudly,! I'm trying to teach you proper skills to better yourself as a bodybuilder(and keep you healthy) because all of your cycle protocol is incorrect and very amateur. constructive criticism from a experienced professional will only make you better, you have to ask yourself do I really want to learn this sport!!!! A good coach will tell you the truth not what you want to hear! Feelings may get hurt but it will make you a better bb. When fluid is reduced you will see separation, that is not FAT loss. The effects of the estrogen from nandrolone is not going to make you get fat ,(UNLESS YOUR DIET IS NOT ON POINT) it's the fluid as a result of the estrogen you are seeing and thus smoothing you out and it appears to look like fat. Myself or any bb coach will blow your mind with nutritional knowledge from the manipulating of sodium and potassium. Retaining fluid is 100% completely ambiguous and you are seeing an illusion. I can dehydrate you for a couple of days and then you will appear to have lost 10 pounds of fat but in reality it was fluid. Also the longer you stay on gear your liver will be compromised (especially if orals are used in conjunction) and insulin will effect fat distribution over the entire body. That has to be considered, all orals will effect the livers efficiency! I could spend a couple of hours going over insulin and it's effect on fat metabolism and still not even begin to make you understand how insulin effects every cell in the body. Fluid is what you are seeing from the deca or npp not fat (PRESUMING YOUR DIET IS ON POINT ) Now if you are in a calorie surplus your going to gain fat from NORMAL METABOLISM and not estrogen, calorie surplus =weight gain (muscle and fat) a calorie deficit = weight loss (muscle and fat) that is BODYBUILDING 101. Gear like primo, winstrol, var, masteron, dhb, and halo can completely change the way you look over an entire cycle and in 24 hours after sodium loading I can make you look 10 pounds fatter. I can completely change your body in 24 hours from just two minerals (sodium and potassium) A pro bb can miss time his peak and in a few hours completely blow the show and drop several places from the effects of fluid, he didn't gain 5 pounds of fat in a few hours!. I'm 100% sure you are confusing the fluid from the estrogen and assuming it's fat. Post your body fat test results from the last cycle or go get a hydrostatic test done this week and I'm betting that your at least 15% to 20%, (scientifically your still on cycle because the primo won't fully be metabolized until the 27th, 5 more days so your body has not charged ) you can't guess body fat that is 100% completely unreliable, and if you are really gaining pounds of fat from nandrolone estrogen effects with your DIET BEING DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE I will have to see it to believe it!!!

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There is no such thing as individual physiology!, Every human has the same physiology,(that is why BLOOD WORK DOES NOT LIE) it always tells the TRUTH. If everyone had different physiology medical science would not exist! I'm speaking from both SCIENCE AND BB every doctor, professor or scientists will tell you the exact same thing I'm telling you, every experienced bb or bb coach will tell you the exact same thing I'm telling you about science and how it effects metabolism. Personally I believe that you are confusing fluid and fat!, the effects of primo, var, masteron, winstrol have on the body are literally no fluid retention. Drol, test, deca and dbol cause fluid retention, this will change your entire look, which body fat test are you using?? a hydrostatic tank or a electrical system (DEXA), or a pinch test or did you just guess. That photo you provided in the last hupharma cycle thread is at least 15% and probably higher there was no separation in the delts, lower back, or arms, you have to get your body fat tested (if you have on the last cycle please post it now!,) jumping on that cycle after what 12 weeks of dline gear and blending them all together and trying to make any kind of reliable evaluation really put your knowledge into proper perspective, and then wanting to get back on a month clean with no desire to get blood work speaks loudly,! I'm trying to teach you proper skills to better yourself as a bodybuilder(and keep you healthy) because all of your cycle protocol is incorrect and very amateur. constructive criticism from a experienced professional will only make you better, you have to ask yourself do I really want to learn this sport!!!! A good coach will tell you the truth not what you want to hear! Feelings may get hurt but it will make you a better bb. When fluid is reduced you will see separation, that is not FAT loss. The effects of the estrogen from nandrolone is not going to make you get fat ,(UNLESS YOUR DIET IS NOT ON POINT) it's the fluid as a result of the estrogen you are seeing and thus smoothing you out and it appears to look like fat. Myself or any bb coach will blow your mind with nutritional knowledge from the manipulating of sodium and potassium. Retaining fluid is 100% completely ambiguous and you are seeing an illusion. I can dehydrate you for a couple of days and then you will appear to have lost 10 pounds of fat but in reality it was fluid. Also the longer you stay on gear your liver will be compromised (especially if orals are used in conjunction) and insulin will effect fat distribution over the entire body. That has to be considered, all orals will effect the livers efficiency! I could spend a couple of hours going over insulin and it's effect on fat metabolism and still not even begin to make you understand how insulin effects every cell in the body. Fluid is what you are seeing from the deca or npp not fat (PRESUMING YOUR DIET IS ON POINT ) Now if you are in a calorie surplus your going to gain fat from NORMAL METABOLISM and not estrogen, calorie surplus =weight gain (muscle and fat) a calorie deficit = weight loss (muscle and fat) that is BODYBUILDING 101. Gear like primo, winstrol, var, masteron, dhb, and halo can completely change the way you look over an entire cycle and in 24 hours after sodium loading I can make you look 10 pounds fatter. I can completely change your body in 24 hours from just two minerals (sodium and potassium) A pro bb can miss time his peak and in a few hours completely blow the show and drop several places from the effects of fluid, he didn't gain 5 pounds of fat in a few hours!. I'm 100% sure you are confusing the fluid from the estrogen and assuming it's fat. Post your body fat test results from the last cycle or go get a hydrostatic test done this week and I'm betting that your at least 15% to 20%, (scientifically your still on cycle because the primo won't fully be metabolized until the 27th, 5 more days so your body has not charged ) you can't guess body fat that is 100% completely unreliable, and if you are really gaining pounds of fat from nandrolone estrogen effects with your DIET BEING DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE I will have to see it to believe it!!!

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You're probably right. My diet is def not on point. No disrespect taken brother!
 
Brother it's not my intention to make you feel like you are in any way less superior to myself or another more experienced athlete on this board, simply there are some flaws in your approach and i want to (fine tune your game) correct them so that you progress with your physical condition and reach your goals,! Don't take anything personally because I'm not attacking you, just correcting you friend!. Then you can pass the knowledge on to others who admire your psychic one day! Also being a doctor I automatically take a teaching position and that's just my nature bro. Just make a few positive changes and you'll be g2g my brotha!!!!!

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Brother it's not my intention to make you feel like you are in any way less superior to myself or another more experienced athlete on this board, simply there are some flaws in your approach and i want to (fine tune your game) correct them so that you progress with your physical condition and reach your goals,! Don't take anything personally because I'm not attacking you, just correcting you friend!. Then you can pass the knowledge on to others who admire your psychic one day! Also being a doctor I automatically take a teaching position and that's just my nature bro. Just make a few positive changes and you'll be g2g my brotha!!!!!

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Bro, i don't get my feelings hurt. Especially if someone is correct. I know HOW to eat, but what i know is not always what i do. I love food and don't do nearly as much cardio as i should. 2 destructive eating days can fuck your whole week of cutting efforts! Hell, 1 real bad day can!

I hear what you say about fluid retention, but i went from 267 lbs and God knows what bf to the pic you see in my avatar in about 2-2.5 years (I was approximately 210 lbs) on juice... And i promise you that prior to that, i was getting stuck at the 250-267 range trying to do it naturally.

Much of this I am suspecting was bc my estrogen was out of wack for years due to improper pct coupled with alcoholism and being lazy.
 
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