01dragonslayer
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- #21
Good ta hear.
Understanding Estrogen
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01dragonslayer
Veteran
- Aug 25, 2016
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- Thread starter
- #23
Gonna have to back off now. Might skip tomorrow. I've lowered estrogen too much. I can tell because of swelling in the ankles. I know this because I've done it before, lowering e2 too much and this is one of the symptoms I get. Skip tomorrow and then start 1/2 tab of 12.5mg per day on Thursday.
01dragonslayer
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Let us know how it goes brotha.
Just curious as I've never had an issue with gyno but are certain AI's better to run with certain steroids? and if so which which combos work best?
for example:
caber (ancillary) with tren
aromasin with test
clomid etc
nolva etc
Just curious if some work better with others.
for example:
caber (ancillary) with tren
aromasin with test
clomid etc
nolva etc
Just curious if some work better with others.
Last edited:
Caber is not an AI. Either are Clomid and Nolva.
MotorCityMuscleMachine
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- Oct 30, 2016
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caber (ancillary) with tren = ( yes ) can be used if necessary with tren, or other 19 Nor derivitives { it's a Prolatin antagonizer ( inhibitor )
aromasin with test Asin is an estro blocker ( could be, I believe is an AI )
clomid etc. -. POST. Cycle to stimulate the HPTaxi
s ( luetinizing hormone to bring the. NutZ back
nolva etc - is a SERM, but can be ( some use during cycle to hell with estro just blocking, not eradicating
There a good read on here somewhere, just recently put up on the three forms of Estro ( rather types of gyno )
Prolactin, Estro related, and Progesterone related.
Look around, or later if I remember, I'll hit ya back here.if I find it, but gotta run.
MotorCity
aromasin with test Asin is an estro blocker ( could be, I believe is an AI )
clomid etc. -. POST. Cycle to stimulate the HPTaxi
s ( luetinizing hormone to bring the. NutZ back
nolva etc - is a SERM, but can be ( some use during cycle to hell with estro just blocking, not eradicating
There a good read on here somewhere, just recently put up on the three forms of Estro ( rather types of gyno )
Prolactin, Estro related, and Progesterone related.
Look around, or later if I remember, I'll hit ya back here.if I find it, but gotta run.
MotorCity
MotorCityMuscleMachine
Veteran
- Oct 30, 2016
- 3,338
- 19
^^^^ I had filed it... { Why not put it here too .}
Understanding Estrogen
....good info from another site on understanding estrogen.
The AI/AE & Estrogen Handbook
First of all there are three different types of gyno: estrogen induced, progesterone induced and prolactin induced. Of course you can avoid all three types of gyno by keeping estrogen within the normal range. The precursor to any type of gyno is estrogen! Once you let estro build up you signal to your brain that you have conceived doesn't matter if you are a man or woman keep in mind, your body at this point will have to go through certain processes to prepare you for lactation. Firstly your body will rush to use that estrogen and build up breast tissue (lump) which is mandatory for the lactation process. Once this stage has been completed and you have let estrogen still high your progesterone will increase (estrogen can still remain high) which is an attempt of your body to make the tissue larger and also make your aerolas bigger (puffy and enlarged nipples) again to get them ready for lactation. Last stage of gyno is prolactin/lactation, all previous stages were preparing the body for this moment at this point your progesterone and estrogen will drop and your prolactin will spike, this is when someone starts lactating
Most challenging hormone for the steroid user is estrogen by far. Think about it?s the cause of any changes in your gyno/pecs, mood, libido, hardness, bloat, skin, prostate, appetite you name it when you feel off 90% of the time is due to low/high estrogen levels.
When you hit your sweet spot you will know you cant miss it, you will feel happy, content, you will fuck like a champ eat like a champ and train like a champ and too top it off everybody around you will be happy as well
Here is an indicator I used since my early days on hormones:
Too low E2=great erections, difficulty to ejaculate, dull orgasm.
Too high E2=inability to maintain erection, therefore, great difficulty ejaculating, just forget it.
E2=easy erections, able to control ejaculation, stunning orgasm. ?
Low and high estrogen sides are very alike the more experienced you get the easier is to differentiate between them but it will always be tricky, if in doubt get your estradiol checked though bloodwork
High estrogen sides
Acne, loss of libido, water retention (Bloat), pissing less than the water you consume, moon face, very small testicles, scrotum hanging too high, soft testicles, extreme oiliness all over, aggression (roid rage), depression, *****iness, lethargy, insomnia, soft erections, extreme cravings for sugar/chocolate, high bp, bp spikes, enlarged prostate, pressure in lower abdomen when urinating, thin stream, constipation (from water retention)
Low estrogen sides
Dry skin, dry lips, dehydration, loss of libido, good morning wood no wood when its time for sex, loss of wood while having sex, loss of sensitivity, dry gland (penis), white gland, loss of girth, irritability, mood swings, crying for no reason, dht rage (aggression you take out on others), dull orgasm, hesitation just before urinating, night sweats, loss of appetite, constant fatigue, lethargy, constipation (due to dehydration), diuretic effect (pissing more water than you are consuming), itchy scalp, obsessive thoughts
When you get one side effect it is just an indication use this list to make a full picture. So say you have loss of libido, no zits and dry skin/flaking you know your e2 is low. Say you have loss of libido, acne, uncontrollable aggression, and bloat you know your e2 is too high. Never go by one side only, being bloated only means nothing, having dry skin only means nothing again.
AIs
Keep in mind estrogen is good for you in many ways (libido, mood, skin quality, hair, nails etc) BUT most importantly estrogen is good for your liver. I am sure you have heard how arimidex and letrozole are bad for your liver values when aromasin is ?better?, in reality all AI?s are as bad as each other for your liver values. The moment you start lowering estrogen the worst your liver values will get doesn?t matter what AI you use all it matters is how much you are lowering your estro. If you lower your estro say by 10nl/dl you wont notice much if you crash your estro down to single digits I guarantee you your hdl/ldl will be completely out of whack no matter what AI you used
Suicidal AI vs Non suicidal/binding AI
Adex and letro are non suicidal AI?s all they do is bind any estrogen you convert directly on your aromataze enzyme. Each AI binds a different percentage of estrogen, letro binds more than adex of course. Problem with biding AI?s is once you seize use all the estro that had accumulated over the weeks/months you were using the AI suddenly gets released this process is called estrogen rebound and I am sure you know it can be far worse than estrogen while on a cycle since normaly when you drop your AI you either cruise with a low dose of test or pct. In both cases you have far less test in you and once all that estrogen is released you got a much higher chance of getting gyno and of course you are going to be bloated like a balloon and feel soft for weeks till your estro comes down to normal levels.
Aromasin is the new generation of AI its suicidal, the difference being with the other AI?s is Aromasin will actually destroy/kill a certain percentage of your aromataze enzyme so by doing so it also kills any estrogen that was attached to that enzyme. Means when you stop using aromasin you wont rebound at all like you would with the binding AI?s and if anything you will have to wait for a while for your body to start producing more aromataze (very bad if you crashed your estro comparing to the other AI?s). Each person is different in the rate they create new aromataze for me it takes around 2 weeks for someone else it can take one or three weeks. Only way you can speed up the process is by using HGH, you can use all the dbol you want all the test suspension you want if you crashed your estro with aromasin and you don?t have aromataze you wont even bloat from those compounds there wont be any estrogen conversion, also you will get 0 results from the dbol at least.
Understanding Estrogen
....good info from another site on understanding estrogen.
The AI/AE & Estrogen Handbook
First of all there are three different types of gyno: estrogen induced, progesterone induced and prolactin induced. Of course you can avoid all three types of gyno by keeping estrogen within the normal range. The precursor to any type of gyno is estrogen! Once you let estro build up you signal to your brain that you have conceived doesn't matter if you are a man or woman keep in mind, your body at this point will have to go through certain processes to prepare you for lactation. Firstly your body will rush to use that estrogen and build up breast tissue (lump) which is mandatory for the lactation process. Once this stage has been completed and you have let estrogen still high your progesterone will increase (estrogen can still remain high) which is an attempt of your body to make the tissue larger and also make your aerolas bigger (puffy and enlarged nipples) again to get them ready for lactation. Last stage of gyno is prolactin/lactation, all previous stages were preparing the body for this moment at this point your progesterone and estrogen will drop and your prolactin will spike, this is when someone starts lactating
Most challenging hormone for the steroid user is estrogen by far. Think about it?s the cause of any changes in your gyno/pecs, mood, libido, hardness, bloat, skin, prostate, appetite you name it when you feel off 90% of the time is due to low/high estrogen levels.
When you hit your sweet spot you will know you cant miss it, you will feel happy, content, you will fuck like a champ eat like a champ and train like a champ and too top it off everybody around you will be happy as well
Here is an indicator I used since my early days on hormones:
Too low E2=great erections, difficulty to ejaculate, dull orgasm.
Too high E2=inability to maintain erection, therefore, great difficulty ejaculating, just forget it.
E2=easy erections, able to control ejaculation, stunning orgasm. ?
Low and high estrogen sides are very alike the more experienced you get the easier is to differentiate between them but it will always be tricky, if in doubt get your estradiol checked though bloodwork
High estrogen sides
Acne, loss of libido, water retention (Bloat), pissing less than the water you consume, moon face, very small testicles, scrotum hanging too high, soft testicles, extreme oiliness all over, aggression (roid rage), depression, *****iness, lethargy, insomnia, soft erections, extreme cravings for sugar/chocolate, high bp, bp spikes, enlarged prostate, pressure in lower abdomen when urinating, thin stream, constipation (from water retention)
Low estrogen sides
Dry skin, dry lips, dehydration, loss of libido, good morning wood no wood when its time for sex, loss of wood while having sex, loss of sensitivity, dry gland (penis), white gland, loss of girth, irritability, mood swings, crying for no reason, dht rage (aggression you take out on others), dull orgasm, hesitation just before urinating, night sweats, loss of appetite, constant fatigue, lethargy, constipation (due to dehydration), diuretic effect (pissing more water than you are consuming), itchy scalp, obsessive thoughts
When you get one side effect it is just an indication use this list to make a full picture. So say you have loss of libido, no zits and dry skin/flaking you know your e2 is low. Say you have loss of libido, acne, uncontrollable aggression, and bloat you know your e2 is too high. Never go by one side only, being bloated only means nothing, having dry skin only means nothing again.
AIs
Keep in mind estrogen is good for you in many ways (libido, mood, skin quality, hair, nails etc) BUT most importantly estrogen is good for your liver. I am sure you have heard how arimidex and letrozole are bad for your liver values when aromasin is ?better?, in reality all AI?s are as bad as each other for your liver values. The moment you start lowering estrogen the worst your liver values will get doesn?t matter what AI you use all it matters is how much you are lowering your estro. If you lower your estro say by 10nl/dl you wont notice much if you crash your estro down to single digits I guarantee you your hdl/ldl will be completely out of whack no matter what AI you used
Suicidal AI vs Non suicidal/binding AI
Adex and letro are non suicidal AI?s all they do is bind any estrogen you convert directly on your aromataze enzyme. Each AI binds a different percentage of estrogen, letro binds more than adex of course. Problem with biding AI?s is once you seize use all the estro that had accumulated over the weeks/months you were using the AI suddenly gets released this process is called estrogen rebound and I am sure you know it can be far worse than estrogen while on a cycle since normaly when you drop your AI you either cruise with a low dose of test or pct. In both cases you have far less test in you and once all that estrogen is released you got a much higher chance of getting gyno and of course you are going to be bloated like a balloon and feel soft for weeks till your estro comes down to normal levels.
Aromasin is the new generation of AI its suicidal, the difference being with the other AI?s is Aromasin will actually destroy/kill a certain percentage of your aromataze enzyme so by doing so it also kills any estrogen that was attached to that enzyme. Means when you stop using aromasin you wont rebound at all like you would with the binding AI?s and if anything you will have to wait for a while for your body to start producing more aromataze (very bad if you crashed your estro comparing to the other AI?s). Each person is different in the rate they create new aromataze for me it takes around 2 weeks for someone else it can take one or three weeks. Only way you can speed up the process is by using HGH, you can use all the dbol you want all the test suspension you want if you crashed your estro with aromasin and you don?t have aromataze you wont even bloat from those compounds there wont be any estrogen conversion, also you will get 0 results from the dbol at least.
MotorCityMuscleMachine
Veteran
- Oct 30, 2016
- 3,338
- 19
My bad, should have looked at the thread title.Lol....
It's been the first post here, half awake....!!
Any hoo.. (sorry OP , I delete if necessary, but there ya go
Complement's of good Ole' 01DS { Dragonslayer }
J Oz...!
It's been the first post here, half awake....!!
Any hoo.. (sorry OP , I delete if necessary, but there ya go
Complement's of good Ole' 01DS { Dragonslayer }
J Oz...!
Last edited:
thanks brother. Exactly what I was looking for.
MotorCityMuscleMachine
Veteran
- Oct 30, 2016
- 3,338
- 19
No, thank 01 Dragonslayer, it's the first post in this thread, he had copied and pasted it from another Board, but yes good info.. I saved it, was half awake when I repeat posted
It.
BTW Prami is another for 19 Nor,. As is oldschool Cytadren I believe (Aminogluthimide )...??
Ok now I've lowered the dose of test to around 300mg per week this week. Stopped the dhb I was taking. Still have some zits on my scalp and it's itchy. Sure I could get a blood test but I want to keep dosage of test e consistent for a few weeks before testing. Otherwise I don't think it will tell an accurate picture and I'll just be wasting my money. Getting some pains in my elbows, which I'm guessing means I need to lower the aromasin/exemastane dosage.
I shave my head normally, but I've been letting it grow a little longer lately because of these zits. The past few days I've cut down the aromisin some and also cut my test e dosage down to 300mg per week this last week. Now it seems my scalp is less itchy and not as greasy. Yes some of them are painful to the touch. I've got to get estrogen dose correct and I believe keep my test dosage lower to figure this out. Then again the zits I have to heal/go away.
Same just lowered my test dose to 300mg wk and just added dhb 400mg wk. How did dhb work out for you? What was wkly dose? Why I'm asking cause this is my first go around with it. I do notice my left elbow really hurts not to sure if it aromasin dose cause when I drink more water the pain lessens but it hurts like a bitch it's really annoying. Idk what's going on my aromasin is def legit I can't get more than 3 days of good libido I keep changing my dose 12.5mg day sometimes 25mg a day and I just added some proviron hopefully will help. I go by morning wood if I wake up with it I keep dose the same.
Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
Well this time around with the dhb I just didn't stay on long enough to notice anything. I've run it about 3-4 times before IM though. Always have great results. A bit of sweating though and it seems to make me feel hotter than normal. Also I notice some strength gains on it. Sometimes I've gotten a bit of bad PIP, however I've been able to stop that just by heating up the oil each time. Now I just heat up anything regardless of what type of drug it is. I put it on a pan on the stove. It's a electric stove so I put it on "3" for about 10 minutes sometimes a little more. Every 2-3 minutes I swirl or shake up the vial a bit for even heat distribution. I let it get hot enough that most of the time I need a pot holder to pick up the vials. Sure the vials are that hot, the oil doesn't get that hot. I've yet to burn myself anyway. Oil is usually thick enough that the vial has to get really hot before the heat is able to really transfer from the vial to the oil and be evenly distributed.
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