How much protein can the body process in one sitting?

[2redstars]

Here’s what you should really do if you want to maximize your gain

BY CHRIS MOHR, PH.D., R.D.
It would seem logical that the more protein you pack away during a meal, the bigger your muscles would grow.
But your body doesn’t work that way. There’s a certain amount of protein your muscles can absorb in one sitting.
“Skeletal muscle protein synthesis is maximized by 25 to 35 grams of high-quality protein during a meal,” says Doug Paddon-Jones, Ph.D., a professor of nutrition and metabolism at the University of Texas Medical Branch.
“Protein synthesis” is basically a fancy way of saying “building and repairing muscle.” Exercise creates microtears in your muscles. The harder you work, the more tears. Protein helps repair these tears, causing your muscles to grow bigger and stronger.
If your muscles receive fewer than 25 grams of protein in a sitting, however, muscle tears brought on by exercise persist due to lack of building materials.
But if your muscles receive more than 35 grams of protein, they have all the building materials they need and the protein goes to other parts of your body—or into the toilet.
The magic amount of protein your muscles are capable of absorbing during a meal seems to be about 25 to 35 grams.
You could get that from:
1 cup cottage cheese (28 grams protein)
1 cup Greek yogurt plus a handful of nuts (25g)
A palm size portion of steak, fish and/or poultry (28g)
3 whole eggs + 3 egg whites (27g)
1 scoop of whey protein (25 g) (Use the scoop in any of these 20 Healthy, Protein-Packed Shakes.)
So chewing through an entire side of beef may not benefit your muscles any more than taking down a smaller portion of tenderloin.
In fact, if you’re piling your plate with too much protein, you might be pushing other vital nutrients out of your diet from foods such as vegetables, fruits, healthy fats, and whole grains, that can help with muscle recovery and weight loss.
And you don’t have to down a huge shake or omelet after a workout.Studies on protein timing show muscles’ elevated sensitivity to protein lasts at least 24 hours, says Alan Aragon, M.S., Men’s Health nutrition advisor.
In fact, one 2012 review study by McMaster University showed that muscle protein synthesis may continue for 24 to 48 hours post-workout. “The effect is higher immediately after exercise and diminishes over time, but that certainly doesn’t imply a magical window closes after an hour,” says Aragon.
What matters most is your total protein intake throughout the day. Re-frame how you think about protein, especially if you’re trying to build muscle. Instead of eating 60 grams of protein during three meals a day, trying eating 25 to 35 grams of protein four or more times a day. Consume one of these meals within one to two hours pre- and –post workout so you cover your bases, says Aragon.
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-your-muscles-absorb

 

[Stihl]

And that ladies and gents is why you don't stay natty!

 

[Gman13]

This is one of those times where more at one sitting is not always better.

 

[IronHorse]

Yup 6 small protein packed meals per day, that's where I'm at right now.

 

[Nutpuncher]

Here’s what you should really do if you want to maximize your gain

BY CHRIS MOHR, PH.D., R.D.
It would seem logical that the more protein you pack away during a meal, the bigger your muscles would grow.
But your body doesn’t work that way. There’s a certain amount of protein your muscles can absorb in one sitting.
“Skeletal muscle protein synthesis is maximized by 25 to 35 grams of high-quality protein during a meal,” says Doug Paddon-Jones, Ph.D., a professor of nutrition and metabolism at the University of Texas Medical Branch.
“Protein synthesis” is basically a fancy way of saying “building and repairing muscle.” Exercise creates microtears in your muscles. The harder you work, the more tears. Protein helps repair these tears, causing your muscles to grow bigger and stronger.
If your muscles receive fewer than 25 grams of protein in a sitting, however, muscle tears brought on by exercise persist due to lack of building materials.
But if your muscles receive more than 35 grams of protein, they have all the building materials they need and the protein goes to other parts of your body—or into the toilet.
The magic amount of protein your muscles are capable of absorbing during a meal seems to be about 25 to 35 grams.
You could get that from:
1 cup cottage cheese (28 grams protein)
1 cup Greek yogurt plus a handful of nuts (25g)
A palm size portion of steak, fish and/or poultry (28g)
3 whole eggs + 3 egg whites (27g)
1 scoop of whey protein (25 g) (Use the scoop in any of these 20 Healthy, Protein-Packed Shakes.)
So chewing through an entire side of beef may not benefit your muscles any more than taking down a smaller portion of tenderloin.
In fact, if you’re piling your plate with too much protein, you might be pushing other vital nutrients out of your diet from foods such as vegetables, fruits, healthy fats, and whole grains, that can help with muscle recovery and weight loss.
And you don’t have to down a huge shake or omelet after a workout.Studies on protein timing show muscles’ elevated sensitivity to protein lasts at least 24 hours, says Alan Aragon, M.S., Men’s Health nutrition advisor.
In fact, one 2012 review study by McMaster University showed that muscle protein synthesis may continue for 24 to 48 hours post-workout. “The effect is higher immediately after exercise and diminishes over time, but that certainly doesn’t imply a magical window closes after an hour,” says Aragon.
What matters most is your total protein intake throughout the day. Re-frame how you think about protein, especially if you’re trying to build muscle. Instead of eating 60 grams of protein during three meals a day, trying eating 25 to 35 grams of protein four or more times a day. Consume one of these meals within one to two hours pre- and –post workout so you cover your bases, says Aragon.
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-your-muscles-absorb

Thanks for the interesting read. I love to learn about human engineering. I wish I had this passion for learning when I was in college, but I was too stupid to take advantage of it even though I did graduate with a Applied Mathematics degree which didn't do ANYTHING for my so called career.

 

[Huge1]

balanced.... steady...... consistency..... more isn't better..... better is better.

Better questions.... How much protein do you take in daily?

I eat by need... 250g - 350g

If I am running something that "helps" nitrogen retention, then 350-400g. For me, that stays pretty steady..... carbs I flex up & down depending on workload.

 

[Big Tex]

What matters most is your total protein intake throughout the day. Re-frame how you think about protein, especially if you’re trying to build muscle. Instead of eating 60 grams of protein during three meals a day, trying eating 25 to 35 grams of protein four or more times a day. Consume one of these meals within one to two hours pre- and –post workout so you cover your bases, says Aragon.

Good article but what Dr. Aragon failed to point out was the digestion and assimilation rates of the different protein. In the protein world, and this is important to protein sysnthesis, we have 1) fast digesting, 2) medium digesting and 3) slow digesting proteins. Fast digesting protein would be your different varieties of whey protein. They get into the small intestine and clear the stomach after about 20 minutes. Medium are white meats, eggs, white fish, etc. Slow proteins would be dark meats, dark fish, casein (cottage cheese) and red meet. You can see in the chart below how fast/slow protein digest:

So whey is usually 21-25g per serving at a digestion rate of 8-10g/hr it take about 2 hours to digest a protein shake, using water instead of milk. A serving of red meat, say 8oz (5.6g/p/oz) has about 44.8g of protein in a serving. Since it is a slow digesting protein it only digests at a rate of 10g/hr. So it would take almost 5 hours to digest this much protein. So it is more like a time released protein. This being said, it is not so much how much you eat with each meal because the body only breaks it down so fast, but the timing and type of protein you eat.

So what types do you need to eat?

Breakfast - a fast digesting protein to stop catablolism and a medium protein to get you through to the next meal (~ever 3 hours)
Snack - medium
Lunch - medium protein
Pre/post training - fast protein (aids in hypertrophy)
Dinner - slow digesting protein (keeps hypertrophy rate high while you fast)
Pre-bed - whey (increases TEF)

Dr. Aragon hit the nail on the head when he said the window of opportunity seems to be much more than 1 hour post exercise. Current research in fact, shows this and says protein intake around training, can be either before or after which ever is more convenient. My preference if pe-workout when the aminos can be shuttled into the muscle cell to increase the pump, especially when insulin is used or IGF-1/GH. This supersaturation of the muscle cell or pump is thought to kick-start hypertrophy through cellular swelling.

SInce Dr. Aragon is a research scientist and not a bodybuilder, he has the scientific concepts down but in practice, this is not what is best for bodybuilders/hypertrophy. He was right in saying the total daily amount of protein is more important, but keeping your protein to 25-35g/meal is not important when you consider that the most you can digest in an hour is red meat at 10g/hr. Look at it this way, if you are a heavy weight bodybuilder (285lbs) and you are eating 2g/protein/lb and eating 6 meals that is 570g of protein/d. Divide that by 6 meals and anyway you look at it you will need 95g/pro/meal. So we are back to the total daily amount of protein being important again. Limiting yourself to 25-35g will short a heavy weight BB the total amount of daily protein needed. But then you can always debate whether that much protein is necessary, I think Dr Antonio did a study that showed more is better. Certainly lots of pros make the same claim. I would suggest that if you are a competitive BB and are not taking in at least 1.5g/d you are limiting your growth.

But in general this is a very good article.


Here is my friend Jose Antonio's study on protein:

Jose Antonio, Corey A Peacock, Anya Ellerbroek, Brandon Fromhoff and Tobin Silver. The effects of consuming a high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained individuals. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition201411:19.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-19 Full Study

Abstract

Background

The consumption of dietary protein is important for resistance-trained individuals. It has been posited that intakes of 1.4 to 2.0 g/kg/day are needed for physically active individuals. Thus, the purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of a very high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained men and women.

Methods

Thirty healthy resistance-trained individuals participated in this study (mean ± SD; age: 24.1 ± 5.6 yr; height: 171.4 ± 8.8 cm; weight: 73.3 ± 11.5 kg). Subjects were randomly assigned to one of the following groups: Control (CON) or high protein (HP). The CON group was instructed to maintain the same training and dietary habits over the course of the 8 week study. The HP group was instructed to consume 4.4 grams of protein per kg body weight daily. They were also instructed to maintain the same training and dietary habits (e.g. maintain the same fat and carbohydrate intake). Body composition (Bod Pod®), training volume (i.e. volume load), and food intake were determined at baseline and over the 8 week treatment period.

Results

The HP group consumed significantly more protein and calories pre vs post (p < 0.05). Furthermore, the HP group consumed significantly more protein and calories than the CON (p < 0.05). The HP group consumed on average 307 ± 69 grams of protein compared to 138 ± 42 in the CON. When expressed per unit body weight, the HP group consumed 4.4 ± 0.8 g/kg/d of protein versus 1.8 ± 0.4 g/kg/d in the CON. There were no changes in training volume for either group. Moreover, there were no significant changes over time or between groups for body weight, fat mass, fat free mass, or percent body fat.

Conclusions

Consuming 5.5 times the recommended daily allowance of protein has no effect on body composition in resistance-trained individuals who otherwise maintain the same training regimen. This is the first interventional study to demonstrate that consuming a hypercaloric high protein diet does not result in an increase in body fat.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,the real importance of higher proteins diets is............The THERMIC EFFECT OF FOOD. Not to mention the nitrogen balance is kept high and satiety is increased. Especially important when you are on a diet.

From the discussion - also important

The key finding in the present study is that consuming a hypercaloric high protein diet has no effect on body composition in resistance-trained individuals. This is the first investigation in resistance-trained individuals to demonstrate that consuming a high protein hypercaloric diet does not result in a gain in fat mass. Certainly, this dispels the notion that ‘a calorie is just a calorie.’

One might suggest that the high thermic effect of protein may make it difficult to gain body weight during times of overfeeding. It has been shown that the greater the protein content of a meal, the higher the thermic effect [1]

1. Belko AZ, Barbieri TF, Wong EC: Effect of energy and protein intake and exercise intensity on the thermic effect of food. Am J Clin Nutr. 1986, 43: 863-869.

It is unusual that despite no change in their training volume, the ~800 kcal increase in caloric intake had no effect on body composition. This is the first overfeeding study done on well-trained individuals.

It has been shown that the thermic effect is greater with whey versus casein or soy protein. (so again, the type of protein you take in is very important)

Acheson KJ, Blondel-Lubrano A, Oguey-Araymon S, Beaumont M, Emady-Azar S, Ammon-Zufferey C, Monnard I, Pinaud S, Nielsen-Moennoz C, Bovetto L: Protein choices targeting thermogenesis and metabolism. Am J Clin Nutr. 2011, 93: 525-534. 10.3945/ajcn.110.005850.

What this study did not look into

It should be noted that the subjects in the current study did not alter their training. It would be intriguing to ascertain if a high protein diet concurrent with a heavy resistance bodybuilding training regimen would affect body composition (i.e. increase lean body mass and lower fat mass).

In other words, what would have happened if the well trained subjects pushed the intensity with their training while consuming high protein diets?


If you guy have not seen the Milos Sarcev video on nutrition it is well worth watching. Great advice

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[Kins]

Just eat enough protein. Timing and how much you eat per "sitting" is irrelevant.

 

[Kins]

I just ate a 16 oz Ribeye that had more than 35 grams of protein!. Oh No!,

 

[mbell4377]

I've never believed this thought...
Your body is an incredible machine, the biggest strongest people I've ever met and discussed this with eat massive amounts of protein, 400-500gms a day, yes they are "enhanced" which helps nitrogen retention but not digestion that I know of. Your body adapts, keep upping the protein and see if it doesn't pay off in muscle gains, it always has for me


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[Kins]

I've never believed this thought...
Your body is an incredible machine, the biggest strongest people I've ever met and discussed this with eat massive amounts of protein, 400-500gms a day, yes they are "enhanced" which helps nitrogen retention but not digestion that I know of. Your body adapts, keep upping the protein and see if it doesn't pay off in muscle gains, it always has for me


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Yeah it's absolutely ridiculous. You can live your life by what every single study says, but I guarantee you are going to be constantly "changing your mind". I put changing your mind in quotes because if you live you life by what these "studies" say than you really aren't making your own decisions. Science is one thing, but if you leave out anecdotal evidence supported by years of experience than you are short changing yourself. Plus you are micro-managing your life based what some pencil neck geek says. No to say scientific evidence isn't valuable. It is, but it's not the be all end all that some claim it to be. There are things science just doesn't explain. Limiting the amount of protein in each meal as a hard and fast rule is just insane.

 

[ketsugo]

True we thrive on our bodies being adaptive , how we progress. I think to a point but I think enhanced 400-500 still quite a bit , though we must adjust . I think most studies are merely still hypotheses as so many factors can obscure results . Either way fascinating post . See I think of strongest people are also covered in coating of surface fat , something all my 40 years of exercise I try to avoid.

 

[ketsugo]

I recall when I first gave thought to AAS as I trained natty for 15 years or so, I erroneously thought AAS made people smooth , not realizing back then diet and methodology play role . To each his own , we all see the world through different eyes

 

[mbell4377]

I recall when I first gave thought to AAS as I trained natty for 15 years or so, I erroneously thought AAS made people smooth , not realizing back then diet and methodology play role . To each his own , we all see the world through different eyes

It all comes down to what works for us individually, there's no copy and paste program that works for everyone. For someone like me with average or below average genetics IMO its 80% nutrition 20% training. I wish I was so meticulous in my 20's with diet and nutrition as I am now. Back then I just ate whatever I could and a lot of it, I eventually got big and strong but looked more like a football player than bodybuilder.
Genetics play a huge roll in all of this, and I believe genetics would be involved in this protein question. I'm sure the genetic elite can absorb and process more protein than average.
The couple local pros I've spent a lot of time with are so unscientific with things it's staggering, last time I was at the one guys house, there was hamburger helper on the stove and krispy kreame donuts on the counter. And their AAS use just comes down to what's available and how much they can afford, nothing scientific about it, lol


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[Big Tex]

.
The couple local pros I've spent a lot of time with are so unscientific with things it's staggering, last time I was at the one guys house, there was hamburger helper on the stove and krispy kreame donuts on the counter. And their AAS use just comes down to what's available and how much they can afford, nothing scientific about it, lol

Same here. I talked to Brian Dobson and Ronnie Coleman one time and was picking their brains about why Ronnie trained like he did. On the internet all people do is talk about how he has bad form and cheats.......but both Coleman and his trainer Dobson said what he trains works. Obviously it did. As I start looking at research, I find scientific reasons for why Colman's style of training worked so well. But, not studies that investigated this. When you asked the guys in the lab coats if what he is doing is backed by science they laugh and they say NO. I believe it is the job of researchers to figure out why pros who have limited scientific knowledge get the results they do. Most think it is their job to dictate to athletes on how to properly train according to them.

I can't count how many years I have had to hear dietitians and the scientific community tell us that high protein was bad for you. Fat will kill you and saturated fat is our enemy. Protein will even destroy your kidneys and a calorie is a calorie. Yet from the 1st generation bodybuilders all the way up to the current, high protein diets have been a mainstay. And the biggest advice I have gotten from Coleman, to Jay Cutler, to Chris Cormier all have told me the same thing.....you have to eat big to get big. So obviously plenty of calories are important but whre they come from even more so.

Case in point. When I competed in powerlifting I ate 7000--10000 cal/day. Ice cream, milk, donuts and all the crap I could to keep the calories up. I competed i the 308's. But I was not 3% BF or even close. After retiring I dropped to 255 pretty quickly and through eating 5000 cal/d with 40% protein I went to a low last November of 3.6% at 245lbs. I felt skinny and looked to sickly so I cut the protein some and added carbs back, still at 5000cal/d and I am up to 275lbs. So the type of food you eat makes a huge difference. Its certainly notso much the calories. I also taked to Branch Warren for a while where he was here last summer. He said he eats about 7000cal/d and when he cuts he just increases the cardio he does. I felt embarrased because Branch is much shorter than I am, he is 5'6" and I am 6'2" I am eating 5000cal and he eats 7000, yet I weight more than he does. I have to pick up my eating game some.

Kristy Kreme? OK, I admit it, I have two damn donuts every morning with my breakfast now. Not Krispe Kreme, they are way too expensive.

 

[Kins]

Lifting heavier weights progressively is going to work no matter who you are. All the pro bodybuilders concentrate on gear and diet more than training. I don't give 2 craps how they look, doesn't mean they know how to train. There "form" does suck. I bet they trained a lot differently when they first started and that's how they made the majority of their gains. They would look much better if they trained properly and didn't use enough HGH and gear to kill an elephant. Not that I care, but I just wouldn't take training advice from any of them. Diet is a different story. We are talking about freaks of nature here and just because they do something doesn't mean you should emulate it. Quite the opposite. I don't mean to take offense, this is just my mentality.

 

[Big Tex]

Lifting heavier weights progressively is going to work no matter who you are. All the pro bodybuilders concentrate on gear and diet more than training. I don't give 2 craps how they look, doesn't mean they know how to train. There "form" does suck. I bet they trained a lot differently when they first started and that's how they made the majority of their gains. They would look much better if they trained properly and didn't use enough HGH and gear to kill an elephant. Not that I care, but I just wouldn't take training advice from any of them. Diet is a different story. We are talking about freaks of nature here and just because they do something doesn't mean you should emulate it. Quite the opposite. I don't mean to take offense, this is just my mentality.

You could be right.I certainly take no offense to other views. I may be one of those freaks and don't give myself credit for it. I remember training with John Inzer. He use to tell me this genetics thing was just an excuse people use for failure, I never believed it. I had long legs a shot torso and long arms, not exactly what you expect out of a gifted powerlifter. My friend always told me if you want to be the best you work until you are. I use to always use my genetics as an excuse for why I was not as good as some of my idols. So Inzer proved it to me. He came to watch me lift one time along with Steve Goggins. I was pyched. Naturally I said I wanted to pull an 800lb deadlift like he did, but never considered that a possibility. At dinner after the contest, Goggins said you are very talented and you can have a good future in this sport, I laughed. Inzer told me....I am going to help you reach your goals if you really want to see it happen. Happy as shit, I went back to the gym and trained my ass off for over a year going to contest after contest. I kept Inzer up on my training and was waiting on this secret he was going to tell me. FInally I pulled the 800lbs and all Inzer said was congratulations. But what was the damn secret, I thought you were going to help......all he said was, I did help you, I told you that you could do it if you wanted to. Positive thinking.

Coaching football, I saw a lot of what appeared to be gifted athletes who got beat out of scholarships and went on to play many years in the Pros by guys who appeared to have no athletic ability and you really wished they would just quit. Cory Redding DL of the Arizona Cardinals is one that immediately comes to mind,.Cory's brother was the athlete and he never made it past UT. Cory was the one we all called JUG BUTT. He was slow and completely unathletic in everything he did. Boy did that change. He ended up about 6'5" and over 300lbs. These types worked as hard as they could and finally pull out in front of those who I thought would easily beat them out for a starting spot. I see many of those same kids who have been in the NFL for 10-15 years now. Many genetically gifted athletes that are hanging out on the street corner. I guess its all how you see life. I don't believe in genetics and iinstead believe in hard work and dedication. That will over come everything. Many disagree with me. I should have never made it to my level of competition. Had it not been for one of the best telling me I could, I would probably given up on the gym years ago.

 

[Kins]

You could be right.I certainly take no offense to other views. I may be one of those freaks and don't give myself credit for it. I remember training with John Inzer. He use to tell me this genetics thing was just an excuse people use for failure, I never believed it. I had long legs a shot torso and long arms, not exactly what you expect out of a gifted powerlifter. My friend always told me if you want to be the best you work until you are. I use to always use my genetics as an excuse for why I was not as good as some of my idols. So Inzer proved it to me. He came to watch me lift one time along with Steve Goggins. I was pyched. Naturally I said I wanted to pull an 800lb deadlift like he did, but never considered that a possibility. At dinner after the contest, Goggins said you are very talented and you can have a good future in this sport, I laughed. Inzer told me....I am going to help you reach your goals if you really want to see it happen. Happy as shit, I went back to the gym and trained my ass off for over a year going to contest after contest. I kept Inzer up on my training and was waiting on this secret he was going to tell me. FInally I pulled the 800lbs and all Inzer said was congratulations. But what was the damn secret, I thought you were going to help......all he said was, I did help you, I told you that you could do it if you wanted to. Positive thinking.

Coaching football, I saw a lot of what appeared to be gifted athletes who got beat out of scholarships and went on to play many years in the Pros by guys who appeared to have no athletic ability and you really wished they would just quit. Cory Redding DL of the Arizona Cardinals is one that immediately comes to mind,.Cory's brother was the athlete and he never made it past UT. Cory was the one we all called JUG BUTT. He was slow and completely unathletic in everything he did. Boy did that change. He ended up about 6'5" and over 300lbs. These types worked as hard as they could and finally pull out in front of those who I thought would easily beat them out for a starting spot. I see many of those same kids who have been in the NFL for 10-15 years now. Many genetically gifted athletes that are hanging out on the street corner. I guess its all how you see life. I don't believe in genetics and iinstead believe in hard work and dedication. That will over come everything. Many disagree with me. I should have never made it to my level of competition. Had it not been for one of the best telling me I could, I would probably given up on the gym years ago.

Right, so you did not emulate or follow these guys training programs. I see it too many times, guys see a "pros" training program online or in a magazine if people still read those things. They think if they follow the exact same training program as these guys they will look like them or be as strong as them. It just doesn't work that way. It's idiotic!. Just because some "pro" does something a certain way, doesn't mean that if you do it the same way you will turn into them. I mean, come on!. You've got to agree with this!. You've got do your own programming if you really want to progress, you can't just blindly follow something you found on the internet posted by some "guru" or "pro". It takes dedication, planning, hard work and a deep understanding of the mechanics of each exercise.

Not that I follow up and follow my own advice. I'm motivated, but lazy and old, those are my excuses. In school I was always told that I was smart but just had to "apply myself". I had a lot of competitive power-lifters ask me to train with them but turned them down every-time. Only because I wanted to do things my way and I felt dis-agreeing with these monsters could cause some trouble and they would never help me out again.

You see what I'm sayin' though right?. If I'm interpreting your post right it sounds like you'd agree with me. Sorry, I'm entirely too worried about pissing people off and having people upset with me. At the same time I like to get my point across but it might seem mean or rude when it's not meant to be.

 

[Andrew0409]

What the hell is one sitting? can this guy be more unscientific. Yes, your body has a limit to absorbing how much protein in a certain time frame. But in a 24 hour day, you can absorb a lot of protein. using a sitting to describe this time frame is confusing. Sounds like something some poor weak guy reads and doesn't get enough protein.

 

[Big Tex]

Right, so you did not emulate or follow these guys training programs. I see it too many times, guys see a "pros" training program online or in a magazine if people still read those things. They think if they follow the exact same training program as these guys they will look like them or be as strong as them. It just doesn't work that way. It's idiotic!. Just because some "pro" does something a certain way, doesn't mean that if you do it the same way you will turn into them. I mean, come on!. You've got to agree with this!. You've got do your own programming if you really want to progress, you can't just blindly follow something you found on the internet posted by some "guru" or "pro". It takes dedication, planning, hard work and a deep understanding of the mechanics of each exercise.

Not that I follow up and follow my own advice. I'm motivated, but lazy and old, those are my excuses. In school I was always told that I was smart but just had to "apply myself". I had a lot of competitive power-lifters ask me to train with them but turned them down every-time. Only because I wanted to do things my way and I felt dis-agreeing with these monsters could cause some trouble and they would never help me out again.

You see what I'm sayin' though right?. If I'm interpreting your post right it sounds like you'd agree with me. Sorry, I'm entirely too worried about pissing people off and having people upset with me. At the same time I like to get my point across but it might seem mean or rude when it's not meant to be.

KIns, I kind of agree and disagree. When I started powerlifting in 1980 I knew nothing. I listened to those I trained with and, read Powerlifting USA and followed the workout of the month from all the experts. Some of the stuff worked for me and I would gradually toss out what didn't. I trained with some of the greats like Jim Cash, Anthony Clark and Tiny Meeker watching way they did and taking parts of their training that worked and tossing the rest. Fred Hatfield and Louie Simmons gave me lots of new ideas which I salvaged quite a few things for my workouts. Gradually, I had my own training program which was nothing but stuff I had pieced together from many of the best. The law of individuality is a very important scientific principle. It means we are very individual and react differently to different type of training stimuli. Doesn't mean the experts are wrong, it just means I guess as you are saying that what Jay Cultler does may not work for my specific fiber type or build.

That being said, when I retired frompowerlifting and let my wife talk me into bodybuilding I had no clue what todo. So, I once again surrounded myself with the best in the business, watching,taking and trying what they do for myself. Once again I have tossed and keptwhat works for me. Donte has some good ideas, Jay Cutler, Warren, Coleman.Since about 2007 I have tried most of it and now have something that works forme. I tried Dante's low volume, heavy weight rest pauses. Not enough volume forsomeone my age. Branch Warren does much more volume. That seem to fit mebetter. Ronnie Coleman trained 6 days a week doing muscles twice a week. Waytoo much for my age. But what he did do that I find works for me is LOTS ofpartial reps, what people refer to as cheating or poor form. This is done tokeep the tension on the muscle being worked, thus causing more growth. I knowfrom doing the bench press that the 1st half is mostly pecs, the last half ofthe sticking point the pecs slow and the triceps and deltoids take over. Thereare plenty of biomechanical study’s verifying this and it’s something we studyin powerlifting. So, Coleman works the bench going only to the half way pointto keep the tension on the pectorals. Plus, you can over load the muscle evenmore with weight. Hell, it worked well for me. I also talked to Shelby Starnswho was showing me a video of him training quads. He was doing a high squat andsomeone asked him why he didn't go full ROM. He was working the quads, keepingthe tension on the quads. Same concept as Coleman. So, I gave it a try as itmade complete send and wha t a difference it made.

The part I have a difference of opinion with isthe genetic thing. I don’t believe in that.. My wife does but I don't. Justbecause someone is a top pro doesn't mean they got there with sloppy training,lot of drugs and great genetics. They get there because they find the rightdrugs to get the most out of their body, the right combination of foods to getdown to 2% BF and train their asses off in the gym to get the most musclepossible, We can certainly learn from watching these guys but as you said,should not mimic them as we are all individual. I would have never gotten towhen I went in powerlifting if not for all the help, observation and ideas fromthe best in the sport that I knew. I was lucky. These guys showed me everythingfrom the mental part of the game, to eating, to how intensely to train in thegym. You will never learn these things from guys who can't make it and look forexcuses for failure.

John Inzer showed me so much about the mentalpart of powerlifting. He would not tolerate anyone training with him that madeany kind of negative comments. His ability to psyche himself up before a liftwas super human. I watched him and tried the same things he did and it workedvery well. I just had to modify it to fit my brain. I am not nearly as analabout the negative comments but I did learn how to focus and give myselfpositive reinforcement. I still remember telling myself over and over aboutthis is what people are here to see, you are the best you know this weight iseasy and you are the only one who can do it. Haha....this carried over to allparts of my life.

What the hell is one sitting? can this guy be more unscientific. Yes, your body has a limit to absorbing how much protein in a certain time frame. But in a 24 hour day, you can absorb a lot of protein. using a sitting to describe this time frame is confusing. Sounds like something some poor weak guy reads and doesn't get enough protein.

Andrew, Dr, Argon is a very brilliant research scientist. Unfortunately, these guys do not see much value in anecdotal evidence. Case in point, I got into a discussion with Dr, Jose Antonio about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. He said I was out of my mind and there is no evidence proving this. Yet there was all sorts of anecdotal evidence because bodybuilder don't look like powerlifters (we train differently). No evidence, so it can’t possibly exist until there is evidence. But now Bret Contrearas and Dr, Schoenfeld have investigated this and found evidence that it exists because they were athletes first and scientists as a result for the love of the sport.

So in Dr Argon's case, instead of telling us who eat huge amounts of protein every day we can't possibly use that much, find out why we seem to get such good results doing it. The limiting factor is not so much absorption is how much can be actually digested at one time, fat content slows the process down greatly. If you ate a 16oz steak at 10g protein/hr, it would take almost 9 hours to digest and assimilate. So digestion the the limitation but as you said we can eat as much protein as we want in 24 hours. I have sat down before and literally eaten 4-5 pounds of pork ribs at onetime for one meal. All of that eventually got digested and used. It doesn't just turn to fat and disappear, As the study I posted by Dr. Antonio, it is not very easy for the body to turn amino acids into fat.

Yep, i agree with you, stuff like this sounds like weak guys who don't get enough protein. But them most researchers I know fit that description to a T. Like I said, it you are just a recreational lifter 1g/lb is going to do it fine. If you are a gym rat 1.5g/lb. If you are competing, then you are going to need to bump the protein up to 2g/lb. It you are a heavy weight, that is a whole lot of protein and you are going to discover to pay more for groceries each month than you do for your mortgage and car note.